How to Have an Early Adopter Mindset, ConstitutionDAO, Optimizing Twitter Bios, and More

It's sort of like if you look at what do our, what do our rich friends do now that's not common, and then that's just going to become like, like more people are going to do that thing.

What's going on? So did you see, uh, Andrew Huberman replying to my tweet.

Yeah, I did.

I feel like kind of giddy a little bit.

I feel a little honored.

Yeah. Do you feel— I mean, it's kind of cool to interact with him, right?

Uh, yeah, I think he's great. I just really— I think he's really great. Uh, like, the cool part about this podcast is that we— me and you get to hang out often, and then once in a while, like, there's a bunch of guests. I would say for all the guests, I like them all, but maybe 2 out of every 10, I'm like, oh, this is a— this person, you know, they're my kind of people. I just really get along with them, and I really respect what they're doing. And he's definitely one of those people.

So hear me out. I think that we should get— okay, so you have to go somewhere on Wednesday.

Yeah.

So I went and found a guest. Tell me what you think about this guest. And then when I got this person, I was real— I realized we should do this way often, way more. So I met this guy and he has his business that's like a fine local services business in California. And I go, what did you used to do? And he goes, I was in the CIA. I go, what did you do there? And he said, I would go to the Middle East and I would try to commit— get people to commit treason. And I would do it by trying to influence them and persuade them and basically give me secrets so I can, you know, we could do espionage. And I was like, that's the most amazing thing I've ever heard. Can you tell me everything? And I just sat down for like an hour and I asked him questions and I asked him to come on the podcast.

Or that was pre-pod.

Pre-pod. And so I go, dude, you just want to come on and tell me all these— he like told me stories about being in like an alley in Lebanon trying to get some person to show up. And he— the way that he convinced— he's got all these like weird stories. And, and, and it's about persuasion and influence and shit. And I realized, I'm like, Sean and I should just start doing that way more, just getting people who are like interested regardless if it has to do with money or not.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's cool. I met a guy once who— he was like using our product and we held a meetup and like I think 200 people flew to our office and it was a big party basically.. And, uh, there's this guy and he was like, he was always very mysterious cuz our product was kind of like Clubhouse. So you could just kind of sit there, hang out all day and just chat. He was always online. And I was like, oh, so you like don't work or what's the deal? Like you're always online doing this. He's like, oh yeah, I'm like in between, you know, gigs. And I was like, oh, unemployed. I didn't really think too much of it. But when he showed up, I was like, I noticed two things. One is The guy was incredibly muscular. Like, you know, I kind of like bumped into him and it was like I hit a rock and I was like, oh, that was so strange. But he wasn't trying to look super fit, but I could tell. It's like, you know, one of those people that like, yeah, they could do 90,000 pull-ups. It's like, oh, your core is just incredibly— you're just— your whole body's made of muscle. Um, it's not that you have giant muscles, but your whole body is a muscle. And, um, so I was like, okay, that's interesting, noted. And then later on in the night, he, um, like I introduced him to two people. One person was from Russia He spoke Russian with them. I introduced him to another person from Pakistan and he spoke in like Urdu with them. And I was like, how many languages do you speak?

Was he a white guy?

You can tag along.

And then he walked away, and I was just laughing because it wasn't like some super— it's like he tried to do a super smooth move wasn't that smooth in my opinion, but was still hilarious. And he had the balls to approach. So, you know, good for him.

So who was the guy?

I mean, I don't want to say his name, but yeah, he's just a guy. And I like haven't seen him since. Oh my God. One night with the CIA guy.

Well, this guy's coming on when you're gone. And long story short, we should do more cool shit like that.

Yeah, for sure.

Speaking of cool shit, can you— I don't know what's going on with this constitutional shit, and I know you know everything about it. Can you tell me? Because it's actually amazing.

Or like, yes, I think I got a DM a few days ago and it said, hey, a group of us are getting together to buy the Constitution.

Okay, it's like, like, like the United States Constitution.

The United States Constitution.

I think there's, um, 11 of them, right?

There's 11 copies. I think there's only one that's in the hands of private buyers. This is the one. Who owns it? Um, so I don't know who owns it, but it's being auctioned off by Sotheby's. So they said, hey, there's a Sotheby's auction in a couple days. We're gonna create a DAO, which is a crypto term for basically like a group of, just a group of people. Think of it like a company. Um, we're gonna form a DAO and every, anybody can contribute, contribute any amount you want. And we're gonna try to buy the Constitution. And I was like, what the fuck? And I was like, you know, I was like, that's great. Um, I was like, how much is it? You know, how, and I think he said they're gonna need, I wanna say, is it $10 or $20 million? I think it's $20 million that they're gonna need to raise.

Who messaged you?

I mean, I don't think they all want their like name out there necessarily. Okay.

Well, who's the organizer behind this?

It's a gr— it's a small group of kind of like NFT collectors.

So they basically, oh, okay. It's not Paki or—

It's actually pretty amazing. So who, who, how does it work? Who owns it and who, and how's it tracked and how do you know to trust these people?

And what laws—

or my loose understanding of it—

how does it protect the investors? How are the investors protected?

Protected in what way? What do you need protection from? Who's out to get you?

Um, they can lie about the price that they sold it. They can never sell it. They can, uh, who— so, okay, buying it, if they get a hold of it, then they can accidentally—

I don't know how they do custody. So like, I don't know who actually holds the keys. Maybe it's a group that owns the keys. I think the way the DAO is structured is there's a wallet The wallet holds the NFT and it requires X percent vote in order to do anything with it to move the NFT again. So you kind of vote as a group and if whatever, over 50% of people do it, then, then, then they're gonna do it. Okay.

Hold on.

Let me tell you what this person said. So, okay. Maybe I could say his name. It says it in his profile. So this guy, Austin Kane, reached out and he goes, we're lit. He, he just, he started off hot. We are literally purchasing the Constitution of the United States. Okay. I go, cool, how much is it? Uh, Sotheby's estimate is around $15 to $20 million. We're building around the clock. You're— the NFT we did shaped his views on this idea, so I'd love to have you be a part of it, blah blah blah. And they're basically pooling together assets. I think the Discord group that they have has like thousands of members. Like, I think they had $10 million in soft commitments, like verbal commitments, and $3 point something million actually funded., commitments. And so, uh, you crowdfund the DAO, um, and then I think they— what they plan to do is they actually plan to hold the physical Constitution in like the Smithsonian or something like that. Um, so they plan to like have, have the—

do they make a profit? Does this guy Austin make a profit for organizing?

Um, I don't know. They don't— you know, there's not a ton of details and about how the DAO is structured and whether they have like some preferential thing.

And you know, by the way, so this is the same— they got 10 million in 3 days.

10 million's their soft commitments. They have 3.6 actually wired into their wallet.

And you're gonna say we had this for the Jordan thing. And yeah, uh, looking like— I was talking to a friend about that the other day. I'm like, I still think that would be great. The only reason it— I like, if we ever actually wanted to do this, I think there's— the difference is, is that, that, that Constitution is likely just being sold to the highest bidder Whereas if so, if Jordan found out that someone was gonna do X, Y, and Z, he'd be like, no, fuck that. I don't wanna do that.

Yeah. Yeah. Perhaps, perhaps. Uh, then again, it's been on the market for what, 7, 10 years, something like that. So maybe, maybe he's ready to sell if somebody can actually meet, meet, uh, you know, meet the price. I think we, one challenge we had was A, we were just busy and just kind of fucking around saying it. Somebody would actually have to go boots on the ground, figure out, yeah, go see it, go figure out why it's not selling. Figure out what the, you know, the, the rules are around— could people Airbnb it, or could you turn it into a museum, or could you do something with it, or is it literally going to be an inactive asset? Um, you know, but I think this is something that can happen. There's another version of this. Have you heard of Kraus House?

No, what's that?

you can't— that's a— yeah, it's a dope idea. It's incredibly— it's impossible because with buying a basketball team, uh, or any American sports major, like one of the top 4 or 5 sports, it's impossible to buy— or not impossible. The issue is not the lack of money. The issue is that it's like, you know, in England they knight you and they start calling you Sir Richard Branson. In America, we allow you to buy a sports team. Like, it's a select group of people, and very few people are actually allowed to do it, and it's done that way on purpose. So for all the people—

that's true, you, you basically, you have to get approved by the other 30 owners. So, um, you know, they can vote to block you, but that's not to say they would vote to block this. Like, I think this could generate a ton of, uh, attention and press and be seen as pretty forward-thinking. I don't think it's a given that they would block this.

Um, I don't think it's a given they block it, but my point is, is this is not like a thing like oh, I'll just get the money and buy it. I'll just go and buy it, right?

I don't want to spend much time talking about NFTs and crypto because I'm so bored of it, but I just read this amazing Wall Street Journal article about Gary Vaynerchuk. Did you happen to see that?

I didn't see that, but I've been following kind of what he's been doing. But tell me what stood out to you.

Gary's— if for the listeners, Gary's been on the pod a ton. If you— everyone probably knows who he is. If you don't know, he's basically He's a celebrity for having a big mouth, but he's like cool and he's— and he talked, but he talks a lot and he owns an agency that at this point is quite large. If I had to bet, I would say they're like a $200 million revenue business. Like it's really big and he bootstrapped it and he is on fire lately. So basically before we get to the article, lately he launched a thing with Michael Rubin where, um, I forget, Michael Rubin launched two new businesses and Gary's a partner in one of them. I think it's the like NFT trading card one. Is that it? Yeah.

You told me about this. Yeah.

Yes. And then he also is doing— he has a new book coming out, and he just launched this thing like a year ago. We had him on when he did it, called VeeFriends, which I think it's like a collection of NFTs. I think it's valued north of $500 million, right?

I'll have to look up the latest, but yeah, it was basically like a top 10, top 15. It's been a top 10, top 15 crypto project for its entirety, basically.

And I talked to him like the day it launched or something like that. I was with him at this dinner and I think he said that he had made like $20 or $30 million that day from it, like just a huge sum of money.

There's been $93 million of sales of VeeFriends, and I think he gets, you know, let's say a 10 to 15% stake, uh, royalty on every sale. Um, so I think it's pretty easy to estimate at the— I think at the low end he's made $10 million off of VeeFriends. At the high end, it could be like $30 million.

So he's just like prolific.

And let's say what it does. He, he decided to make a, a, an NFT token that you could own it and it guarantees you one utility just the way we did an NFT that said you get 5 minutes of airtime on our pod someday. By the way, the guy who bought it reached out.

Okay. What'd he say?

He's, he's an interesting guy doing interesting things. And so, you know, he want, I asked him, I said, do you wanna cash that in or you gonna hold? And, uh, he hasn't replied yet. The, um, uh, Gary Vee did one where he said if you own—

wait, is the buyer—

my conference—

is the buyer just a rich guy? Is he just like a rich crypto guy?

I think he's— yeah, I think he's like crypto rich, basically. Not like mega, mega rich, not like crypto billionaire rich, I don't think. Um, but it's like a wealthy crypto guy who's like got in early-ish and has done very well and is now doing a bunch of things. So anyways, Gary Vee's— his NFT, if you bought it, great, you have this NFT which might be cool as an NFT. You might like the art, it might be— might— he might launch more products into it someday. But at the very minimum, it gave you access to his conference. So it was a conference ticket in a way for, uh, that you could use. And it was the only— I think the only way to get into the conference, maybe. So that's what he did.

And he hasn't even— I think he just announced when the conference is going to happen and it's going to happen for a guaranteed 3 years or something. Yeah.

So we kind of bumped it back, but whatever.

So Uh, the way you— and you know why people are buying this, right? You know why people are buying 12 copies of this book?

Because— oh, did I not say the 12th copy, they get one of these tokens, right?

They get, they get a mystery NFT. So he promised you that there's gonna be an NFT, it's gonna be good, and it's gonna be for anybody who buys— I, I think— I don't know if there's tiers or what, but like, yeah, 12 or more, uh, books, you're gonna be able to get one. And so, um, and so, so it's kind of crazy, right? Like, that's— 1 million books is an insane number of books to sell. Very few books do a million, a million copies. I think, um, I was looking at this site because I, I signed up to write a book next year with, uh, Tucker Max's thing, and I was like, okay, so what's like good? You know, it's good like 100,000 copies, 10,000 copies?

No, I bet it's like 1,000.

And the biggest winner of the past 5 years is Mark Manson's book.

Which one was that?

The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. That book was so big that when I was reading the quarterly reports for whatever— it's owned by Harper's, which is owned by one of Rupert Murdoch's companies. I don't know if it's Fox or News Corp. Anyway, they like— one of their big things was talking about that book and how it's like saved their publishing business, right?

Yeah. And I think what I would like to do is I don't know this, but eventually I would like to do it, is I want to look at what he's been wrong about. So Gary is right a lot, but he takes a ton of shots. And I was reading Glassdoor reviews of VaynerMedia to understand like what's, what's cool about working there, why people like it so much. Uh, and they were saying like the, the haters, of which there will always be haters, where it was like the negative reviews said something like, he's always saying the latest and greatest thing is going to be the next big thing. For example, and then they named like 4 apps, and I'm like, oh, I don't even like these are dead. Those are cool, like 2 years ago. And so I'd be curious what, what he's been wrong about. But I do think that, that he's likely right more than he's wrong, and he's been right in big ways.

Yeah. Um, I was actually watching— so he did another cool thing, actually, not to make this the kind of Gary Vee hour, but, um, he did an interview with Mark Zuckerberg, which I thought was a pretty big deal.

Amazing. Amazing. It was so good.

Yeah, he— it was good.

Dude, he steamrolled Zuck too.

He kept interrupting, of which the comments were just ripping him for.

He steamrolled Mark Zuckerberg.

Yeah, somebody said in the comments, they go, uh, Gary's talking to Mark about social like he's his big brother and Mark's his little brother. But, you know, obviously Mark Zuckerberg like invented social networking and like runs, runs the world. Um, but it was true, he really was kind of like all over him. He's a better talker than Mark, right? So that's actually kind of natural. He's a a better, um, speaker. He's more engaging and he has these quicker off-the-cuff, and Mark is a little bit more, you know, rehearsed and kind of thoughtful about his words that doesn't always play super well, you know, in front of a camera. But, uh, what did you think of that interview? Did you hear anything that—

Yeah, I thought it was great. I thought Gary said something cool about how he's like, I knew NFTs were going to be big because of FarmVille and how people would pay for these badges. And then he also referenced another Facebook app that I didn't— I don't know what it was, but my context Clues were like, okay, it was like a thing where you could like purchase a cool picture. And he was like, that's how I knew it was gonna be big. And Mark goes, you know, I never really thought of that. Yeah. And I thought that was funny. I thought that was pretty cool. Also, Mark's haircut was horrible, as if they just like put a ball on his head and just cut the bangs around it. What's he doing with a bad haircut like that?

It's all— actually, Gary had a great line in that, which he's like, he's like, basically Mark's talking about like the, the metaverse. You're gonna have this, this avatar. You're gonna have like your character who has its own virtual clothes. Clothing and it wears that. Like, it looks like a Sim basically, if you ever played The Sims. And Gary's like, you've been living this life. Like, basically, like, Mark already looks like a Sim. Like, Mark looks more like a character from a video game than an actual human being. He talks more like a character of a video game than a human being, and he wears the same exact thing every day on purpose, which is what your character in a video game does. Like, black shirt, blue pants.

And he said— and he, and he named him and he goes, this is you already.

He didn't go into details, but he was, he was kind of like complimenting You've been ahead of the curve. But I thought it was hilarious, you know, that he called him out on that in a way.

All right. Let me ask you a quick question. So I've been thinking about this, something I've been thinking about. We've had a bunch of friends talk about screen time, limiting screen time, and I've been thinking about this. So I just did a very short amount of research. So basically, I was curious about what trends have existed where rich— that separated rich people from poor people, for example. Um, in, in the Greek and Roman era, which actually I don't know what years those were actually, um, BC, sometime BC, uh, basically the, you were rich if you were, uh, very, very white and Roman poetry would praise the white girl. And that meant like the, the pale and, and paleness was, yeah, was a, was a mark of beauty and, um, of social class and things like that because basically you're not outside working really hard. Of course, that changed. And in the 1960s, like, it kind of started around right around that time where being tan meant that you have leisure, you know, you have enough time to go hang out outside and have fun. And skin tone became kind of a marker of wealth. And during World War II, women were using tea bags as self-tanner. Coco Chanel around the 1930s, 1940s talked about being bronze and being tan. And so now it's like became popular to be tan. So what do you think? And I'll tell you what I think mine is. What do you think in like 20, 30, 50, 100 years is going to be that thing? My opinion is what it's going to be is a lack of screen time. So not like, like it's going to be like, oh, you use a computer? No, I don't. No, I don't use it. Yeah, I think it's going to be people. And so like Mark Lore talked about that. I believe Jack Dorsey talked about that. Elon Musk has mentioned it. Bill Gates.

Zuckerberg says his kids don't get screen time.

That's what he said.

Yeah, he said this a few years ago. This came out. I think he kind of backed off it because it sounds really bad because it's like, dude, you addicted the whole earth to social media and you're like, don't let your kids do it. But let me see what the exact thing is. But I remember for sure that he either limited or, or said, you know, said he wouldn't do it.

So he said— I noticed that once I kind of got a little bit more success in my career, like, I don't check anything on the weekends and like some for like different projects. Like, I'll get to it when I get to it. Like, I'm just not gonna check check my email. I don't want to be on a screen.

Yeah, I remember it was a big deal when he said it. I think his kids were like under 3 at the time, so it was like, you're probably not doing a ton of— it was like, my daughter's 2, she has a ton of screen time. But like, you know, I get Mark Zuckerberg doesn't have to do that necessarily. So he was like, yeah, maybe when they get older, as they get older, I'm sure they will. But, but people were like, hey, you know, the people, the media sort of out to get you, you know, in this kind of case.

I've got, I've got a couple like pretty wealthy friends and they'll be like, yeah, like our kid has never, like, we don't use our phone in front of them. Um, we don't let them see a phone. And then I, you know, I'll go and hang out with other friends who maybe aren't in that position. And like, we got to dinner and they're playing on the phone the whole time. And so that's my per— I think it's already happening. And I think it's going to happen in the next 10, 20, 30 years.

And that actually, like if in terms of like money making and business, that actually like is an interesting trend to look at. Um, there's this thing called a, uh, what's the dumb phone thing? Is it called a Light Phone? Light Phone. Um, I keep hearing a lot of people talk about this thing. Have you heard of the Light Phone? I, I don't know much about it.

I looked into getting it. So basically, if you haven't seen it, the Light Phone is a really minimalistic looking phone. Looks pretty cool, honestly. Uh, looks very clean design, just like a very basic phone that doesn't have apps.

Like an— it looks like a Zune. Remember, remember a Zune or Microsoft?

Yeah. It's like, it looks like the early cell phones, but just like cleaner. And, um, you know, like a flip phone or whatever. And basically it's just a phone that doesn't have apps. So you could text on it, you could call on it, but you can't use the internet beyond that. And, um, It's meant to be like, hey, do you want to like, you don't want to be detached from the world, maybe your kids or whatever, like, uh, you know, as you, uh, you know, if you need to be reached for an emergency, but, uh, but you don't want to be kind of like on Instagram, you know, at the time. I think it's a great idea. The problem with it is kind of inconvenience with it, which is like, I think you need to like, you need to be like switch your SIM card every time you want to use it and shit like that if you want to use the same phone number. So that's kind of annoying. But, um, I think it's great and I'm surprised this isn't bigger. I think it was like a Kickstarter project.

Uh, I'll buy it. I'm gonna buy it. So we just did this NFT thing and we said we'll do content stuff. I'm gonna set us up with the, uh, or I'll set it up and you can decide if you want to go with the health thing with that executive checkup. And then I'll, uh, I'll buy one of these, uh, Lightphones and we could talk about it. I think it's amazing. I think it's cool. You can still use music. I think it's really cool.

Yeah, I think it's great. And what else comes to mind that's like this? Uh, so what are some other things? So there's obviously in-person experiences, so travel, uh, meetings, concerts. I think that already kind of has like a bit of a premium, but I think that'll get extended. The premium will get larger. The, uh, the rarity will get, will get higher on, on that because if most meetings just happen over Zoom, then you'll, it'll be a special meeting when you make an effort to go fly and meet somebody face to face. Um, same thing with a concert. If you, you know, going there and being there and experiencing it, it's going to be one of those feelings you can really only get by doing that. So it's going to become more valuable over time. Like, I was talking to a comedian and he said, like, he's like, dude, I was worried, like, you know, after COVID what would happen. He's like, demand is roaring back. He's like, the demand now for shows is higher than it was pre-pandemic.

And so you're asking what else is like this, uh, well, the rich people, poor people thing.

What else could be kind of a status symbol? I think I have a couple. Yeah, I think like the splitting time thing between cities.

Um, it's still expensive, but it's one place. It's still expensive, but it's not prohibitively expensive. Um, so like, I think that that's going to be, uh, far more common. I'm doing it now and I realize I'm like in a fortunate situation, but I think that it's far more, uh, accommodating than ever before. Uh, so I think that like that part-time living and splitting time between cities is going to be quite common. Um, I don't know what else.

Yeah, I think that's a, that's actually a great one. Uh, it's sort of like if you look at what do our, what do our rich friends do now that's not common, and then that's just gonna become like, like more people are gonna do that thing. So like, you know, like you're talking about having a few either Airbnbs or like having 3 homes and just shift like throughout the year, just shifting based on where you wanna be in whatever season you wanna be in and not having like a hometown. Um, dude, I hear this more of a thing.

Here's one, and you're getting into it now. I've been into it for a minute as well, which is, did you see—

so I—

well, kinda. I tweeted out asking people to see, to say like, what would— like, I— so I'm, I'm, I'm building this house, um, and I'm like, how would you optimize it for longevity, health, and fitness? And I got so many amazing replies, and the most consistent one was cold plunge and sauna. So many people are interested in that. And I think that that's a much bigger trend than I ever thought. So I think having home saunas and home cold tubs, that is something that's gonna be— that's— I think we're still in the early stages of that. I never would've thought that that was gonna be a thing.

Uh, yeah, that's the— I, I just bought a sauna, by the way, like 2 days ago.

I know, I saw you— what's his name? Andrew said like, don't do infrared. And you're like, uh, but I bought an infrared. Is that still okay?

Yeah. Uh, by the way, there's a sick company. So check this out.

Um, is it, uh, David? David's company, Florence.

Have you seen this?

This guy just DM'd me who I'm friends with. He spoke at HustleCon. He goes, hey, I just met with Sean about my sauna business.

And I said, this guy?

Yeah. And he said that you also like this type of stuff.

Have you, um, did you go look at it?

Did you see it? That's sick. Uh, he just, he DM'd me a video. And you want to explain what it was?

So basically, uh, uh, floor. So there's two that, that got, um that got kind of highlighted here.

Where are you at?

The URL is weareflorens.

How do you spell Florens? F-L-O-R-E-N-S. F-L-O-R-E-N-S.

Okay. Okay. So, basically, weareflorens. So, basically, what he's done is he's built a custom kind of new version of in-home sauna. It plugs into a normal, normal outlet, which when I was looking up saunas, that was like one big thing. It's like, you have to, I don't wanna have to get an electrician out here to handle the power of the sauna. It's like small enough where it fits in. Uh, it's like a great, like, like it's, it's like made for like, you know, one person. It could fit easily. Then there's a super nice, like super clean design. So like most saunas kind of look like this kind of same cabin looking feel. This looks like it fits in like a modern home. It's like very slick looking.. And so he's building this thing and he showed me one. He's got it. I'm gonna go visit him. He's got one down here, not too far from where I live.

That's in the Presidio.

So then there's one in the, then there's one in the Presidio called Ancient Ritual. Have you seen this one or have you heard of this one?

That's the one I saw, Ancient Ritual.

So ancient, so there's two. So Ancient Ritual is the other one that people are kind of hyping up. And I think that one is like almost like Peloton for a sauna. So you get in, normally when you get into a sauna, you're like on your own. It's like, dude, Here, go sit in this, this hot box and like think, or, you know, talk to the naked guy next to you. Like, I don't know, like do whatever you want to do. I think what ancient— I don't know exactly what ancient ritual is doing, but I think what they're doing is it's sort of like a guided meditation. So they have sounds, they have scents, they have like, uh, they'll talk you through like what to, what to like— it's like a, it's like Calm or like Headspace like meets a sauna. Uh, that's my like Prediction. They're a little bit— they're very stealthy. There's like nothing on the website, but that's my understanding of it just from figuring it out.

Dude, the Florence thing is amazing.

Obviously there's a book on, like a famous business book on it where he, where he talks, I think it's Crossing the Chasm or something where he talks about like early adopters and then like the, there's basically this like bell curve of people where it's like in the beginning of the bell curve, it's like late people who relate to it, and then like the middles, like the average Joe, and there's like early adopters, and there's one more like cutting edge. And you and I both have like a handful of friends of which I would actually say that I forget the names of them, but in that bell curve there's people who are getting on names because you got the idea right, but you, uh, like butchered all the names.

So it's basically earliest is innovators, and it's like the people actually like figuring things out, and then there's early adopters, then there's early majority, that's the kind of like big chunk, late majority, that's the other part of the big chunk, and then there's the laggards who are like you know, people who still have AOL email addresses and like, you know, are looking— driving around looking for Blockbusters.

And for a lot of things, I would say you are on the right side. You're, uh, either an innovator or the one next to it, an early adopter.

And I'm trying to go— I'm intense— I'm intentionally trying to go that way. So I thought, uh, you know, I'm just not that. I'm not like a futurist type of guy because I've been so wrong. And I, I figured out the formula for it. The formula for it is Um, have an ego, make a prediction, be wrong like 5 times and have it rubbed in your face how wrong you were. Boom. You're now, you're now a futurist. Uh, like I remember the first time the iPhone came out and I was like, who the fuck wants to like read tiny text on a screen? Like, that's awful. I was like, nobody's gonna watch a movie on this. I was like, yeah, you can watch it. Who would ever watch a movie on this like tiny square? Like, That's like, that would be the worst. It's worse than an airplane headrest. Like, I remember saying these things to people and you know, this is like, I was in college, I was like a junior in college. There was nobody remembers this, but I remember being that wrong. Snapchat, I remember being that wrong. My username still has the word test in it because I was so certain. I was like, Snapchat, this is, this is stupid, right? This is just for kids and dick pics and stuff like that. Like, certainly it won't go on beyond this. Bitcoin, I was wrong early on, right? Guys in my office were telling me about it back in 2012, 2013, and I was kind of laughing and saying, guys, let's focus on something like legit here. And now I'm like, you know, a fucking Bitcoin evangelist. And so like Twitch, same thing. I was wrong about stream. I've been wrong so many times that I've actually flipped the script now. I, I kind of had to reassess my life and say, I'm not gonna be very good as a technology entrepreneur or a technology investor if I just continue to write off the big things as dumb and stupid early on. Like, I need to go the exact opposite way. Okay. What would it take for me to do that? And then I just, I just inverted. So instead of, you know, anytime I see that the same feeling, I instead lean into curiosity. What's making people wanna do this when I think it's so strange? And now I, that's, that's like flipped the script for me.

And we either had Justin or Emmett on at HustleCon or on here, and they're talking about Justin.tv, which was the site before Twitch became a thing. And it was basically Anyone could log in and create their own live TV channel. And Emmett, I believe you could tell me if I'm wrong, I believe the story was like Emmett would like— there's a small corner of the site where these like guys were watching video games and it wasn't a lot of people, like thousands of people, but they were spending 2%, I think, of the traffic at that time. But they were spending a significant amount of time watching and he was like, that's— this is the one that we got to go to.

And I don't even think it was that as data-driven. Actually, the data pointed against it because again, remember, it was a small trap, a small amount. They had a combination of two things working in their favor. Number one, Emmett was like, I, I guess actually the number one factor was they were fucked. The current thing wasn't working and they had like no, like they had nothing to lose. They had all, they were gonna run outta money and fail, or they had to try something dramatically different. And, um, when you feel like you're fucked and you have nothing to lose, you actually have the one of the greatest assets on your side. Um, which is that, you know, when you have nothing to lose, you play completely differently than when you feel like you have something to lose. So that was the first thing they had to change. They, the things that were popular were all like, uh, illegal streams, illegal streams of sports. So they knew, oh, people wanna watch this, but we can't ever build a business around this. Yeah. So what 90% of people are doing on this site, we can't use. The 2% thing worked. And then the other one was, he was like, I personally like watching these. So he's like, I'm gonna go with that. Like, these are my favorite things to watch on the network. So if I'm gonna work on this, I'm gonna work on the ones that I personally find, you know, the most interesting. And actually, most of the company wanted to go work on the hotter, sexier idea, which was called— what was the thing called? The video thing they had? Not Viddy, their version. Yeah, Socialcam.

Socialcam.

And that's kind of my point, which is like, I think that there's like these, I, I do it on online communities, particularly Reddit, but you can right now you could do it on Twitter. Or you could just type in like any idea or any hobby and type in the word forum and you could just find like these niche communities of people that are kind of freaks. And it's fun to like learn all about it. Like for example, intermittent fasting, fasting is now like, we all talk about it. Um, I remember like 8 years ago, I remember Business Insider wrote an article about like a Microsoft executive and they mocked him for the like intermittent fasting. What is this? And, uh, But there's, there's been communities online where I've like read about people doing this for forever, and you're like, fasting? Like, no, like breakfast is the most important meal of the day.

Just look at anything they make fun of Silicon Valley for. At the beginning of coronavirus, it's like, VCs are so paranoid about the real world that they're wearing masks to conferences. Guess what everybody's doing now? Wearing masks, right? Uh, oh my God, intermittent fasting, Silicon Valley's latest craze. Not eating till noon every day. You know what a Google— what Google engineers are doing, right? It's like like, make— the media loves to make fun of it. Guess what? That's what everybody's going to be doing. Um, you know, what are some other things that are like that? I think, you know, some of them are meditation, by the way, was like that too. Uh, people made fun of it, and then, you know, boom, it's like the new yoga. Uh, the other ones I think that, that are happening are like stem cell or any like blood platelet spinning stuff where it's like, oh, you have knee pain? Well, these guys, they like go to Puerto Rico and like go to Germany and like get this fucking blood spinning treatment and go get stem cells injected into their knees.

That, and, uh, now they feel And gene editing, I think, is—

gene editing is one. Another one, uh, breathwork. I think breathwork is where meditation was. I invest in this thing called Othership. They just actually launched their app. I use it every single day, and, um, like, I use it religiously because it makes you feel so good. And to, to the average person, like, I do it outside now after Huberman was like, get, get sunlight on your eyes first thing in the morning. So I do it outdoors, um, and I'm sitting in my driveway basically doing it and neighbors are walking by. They're walking their dog, what they view as a very normal behavior, go for a morning walk, and they see me like doing fucking breathing techniques on my driveway and they think I'm a nut. And I love it. I go louder as soon as somebody walks by because I want them to know they live next to somebody from the future.

Dude, there's this guy, his name was Bill— well, we'll start with— there's this guy named Arthur Leonard. He's dead now, but in the '60s and '70s, he was a New Zealand track and field coach and he had runners like Paul Walker— or not Paul Walker, That's John Walker.

Uh, Peter, Furious actor.

Yeah. Peter Snell and all these like New Zealand guys who started winning the Olympics in the 1500 meters, 5K and 10K. And everyone's like, dude, what are you doing with your runners? And he goes, we run like 120 miles a week. We do long distance running and we go slow and we just do it, just a shitload of it. And this one coach, uh, from Oregon got really interested and, uh, his name was Bill Bowerman. And he goes, well, I'm the track and field coach at Oregon University. I have all these great runners. What are you doing? And he goes over to— in the 1970s to New Zealand and he learns from Arthur Leonard and he comes back and he starts making it popular. And two things happen. University of Oregon gets really good at track and field and he ends up making shoes for his runners so they can run a little bit faster. And he calls it Nike. He calls that company Nike. He starts it with, with another runner, Phil Knight. And the other thing that happens in this is just it worked out perfectly is he starts talking about it to all of his friends, even writes a book about it. And I believe it's called like The Joy of Jogging. Jogging. And the idea of jogging, it wasn't even like a thing in the '70s. People are like, what do you mean? You're just gonna run? Like, aren't—

is it from what?

Yeah, like, aren't the police gonna go after you? And, and like, it, like, it was like astounding. Like, prior to the 1970s, right? So there was a— it was a jogging craze of the '70s. Prior to that, people didn't go out and run. That just like wasn't like a thing. And so anyway, that's like another example where like running became popular and Bowerman created Nike to kind of capitalize on it, right? Uh, let's wrap up with this last thing here. What does I always enjoy your wisdom of shit. Put yourself out there, announce what you're trying to do and how you're trying to do it.

you also need to know who you don't want to work there.

Exactly. And it'll work out. So like, I put a thing up on Twitter once. I remember, I think I've talked about this before on here.

I put up— yeah, people shit on you.

People shit on me. Uh, they piss on me for everything I do. This one, this one, it was— I kind of like almost handwrote it and made it look handwritten. And I said, Hiring an intern, I said, you're gonna get 3 years of experience in the next 12 months. Um, I don't drink coffee, so you'll never have to go fetch me some. Um, you're not gonna know what to do. I'm gonna throw you in the deep end, but don't worry, don't, don't worry, I won't let you drown. And I said, uh, you're gonna work on this, this, and this for me because I'm trying to do X. I, you know, my start— what the startup was at the time is I'm trying to build X and I want somebody who can come in and do things like A, B, and C, and who knows what else. Else. And I basically was like, you know, whatever. And there's a PS at the end. And this got like hundreds of applicants to come in. Why? Just cuz I didn't write a normal job description. Secondly, because I said it, I said what the hell I'm trying to do and it attracted the type of people who, who want to do something like that with their life. You know, they, they found, they found an overlap between their interests. It sounds again so simple, but if you kind of check yourself, you say, have I done that? When's the last time I put a stake in the ground? I put a flag in the ground and said, here's like, I'm Sam Parr, here's what I'm doing so that you would attract like-minded people. I think you kind of did it with the fitness influencer thing, to be honest. You go, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna get away from this business stuff and I'm gonna focus on being, I'm gonna become a fitness influencer. I'm half joking, but I'm also half serious. And, um, and then you started posting the content every day and you started like doing it in public on Facebook, you post on Twitter, you post it. And I'm sure some people make fun of you or some people leave kind of comments that are like slight jabs or whatever. But like, you put it out there, and I'm betting your DMs are full of people who are now— yeah, it's sending you cool equipment ideas. Yeah, flying out to meet you. Like, that's just what happens when you do that.

And it's what I— what I tell people, someone was like, you want to make money off this? I was like, no, but like, I would love like a professional athlete to think that this is kind of cool and be like, oh, I don't know, you like fitness, you want to come over, right? Or, you know, like a Heberman. Like, he didn't find us this way, but he's like, oh, you're into like, you know, the body and things like that. That's neat. I would wanna learn a little bit about the media business. Can I, uh, learn it from you? Um, have you read the book 48 Laws of Power?

I haven't read it now, but I've heard some of them and I find it weird. Uh, like the summary, the basically the guy goes on TikTok. I don't know how he's in my algorithm, but the author Robert Greene, he does like one individual power at a time on TikTok and it always comes up, but it'll always be something so generic that I don't know how to, like, it's like very weird. He'll be like, like, Laws of Power, like, don't— you don't want other people to like you, or something like that. It's like, it's like something like that. I'm like, okay, I don't know what this is. His book's so hyped.

Uh, like I did, uh, here's this little example of it. I had a Twitter bio for the last few months. I just changed it, but I know I thought it was good.

10 million rev or something.

I basically said every Twitter bio I ever saw was like their past. And I thought, okay, I see the value in that. Like it's good for somebody to land and know what you're doing.. But I thought, what's more interesting is like, what are you trying to do now? I said, how could I plant my flag just in the, the top of my profile? And it was very controversial. I think a lot of people felt, I, I don't know, they don't tell me, but I'm, I'm assuming there are, there are a bunch of people out there who probably read it and was like, this is kind of cringey. Or like, why is he saying this is weird? And there's some people that would DM me.

Wait, what was it cringey? All, all you did was said, I wanna make a hun— or no, the business will do $10 million in revenue this year.

Come on.

We're, I get an email from one guy. He keeps saying, how far along are you? You're getting close. Your thing is inspiring me. My, I set my goal too. My goal's not $10 million. My goal's $100,000, but I wanna make $100,000. And, and so like, it attracts like-minded people. And I, and I, I don't even think that that was that good of one version of this. I think the, the Law of 25 you just said is super important to continuously reinvent and craft it and like play with it. Um, don't get stuck in like whatever you used to say 3 years ago or even 3 months ago necessarily, if it's no longer the, the most badass, exciting, fun version of you and what you're trying to do.

Do you, um, and what does it say now? You wanna build a $100 million brand or something?

Yeah. I said I'm building a $100 million brand and, uh, and I put, uh, that I'm investing in company, badass companies like XYZ.

What are the odds that, um, what— so you're building a business right now, which we purposely don't talk about it, but you're building a business right now that's in a totally separate field than you are in now.

If you, you being like media, uh, media, Sean, different than anything I've done before also.

Yeah. Yes. And many people, including me, well, I haven't done this, but this is something I would have, I would do, would say, well, what the hell? Just focus on like the main thing.

Yeah.

Um, but do you think it's going to work out? Like, it seems like it might work out, right?

Yeah, I think it's going to work out. Um, I'm pretty— I'm like, I think it's going to work out. I— the reason why— I mean, I started with my wife, so like, I wanted to start a business with her. I think we had the idea together. I thought that would be fun. I never did it normally. I would go work all day, be super like, you know, excited and stimulated by like all the shit there. She's not into tech. She's not into like the stuff I'm into. So I'd come home and, you know, she'd say like, how was your day? And I'd be like, ah, it was great. Like, you know, it's hard to go much further in depth than that. Right. So this was a cool thing we could do together while we, uh, you know, like had our first two kids and I got two little kids now. So that's why I went into this very different thing. And also as a challenge. And also we have a couple friends that also do e-commerce and we're doing really well with it. So I thought, okay, I can learn from them and, and kind of, we can bounce off each other, bounce ideas off each other.

Would you sell it next year for like $20 or $30 million?

No, I think it can get to— I think get to $100 and like, I think we should just go all the way.

That's pretty awesome. And you're enjoying it still? It's not exhausting?

Yes. Well, um, we can wrap up there. I think— what did you, uh, where's Ben? Ben, what do you think? I think we covered a lot of interesting things. I like the philosophical wisdom bullshit. Yeah, the end was really great. It got my wheels turning about like what I can build kind of in public, how I can put myself out there more. I love that part. I think building in public is overrated, by the way. I'm gonna do it with this ketchup thing, but I think it's overrated. You know what's better than building in public? Just doing cool shit, not talking about it, and being private.

Yeah, that's fair. I'm actually— I'm doing both right now. I have one thing that's in private and a bunch of stuff that's in public, and I actually like them both. Ben, what if I said— what if you were gonna put yourself out there? What are you trying to do? How would you put your— plant your flag so that you can, like a magnet, attract like-minded people to you? What's your— what's your version of, I'm Ben and here's what I'm trying to do right now?

Well, so I mean, obviously a lot of people know about my podcast already, How to Take Over the World, and, uh, I'm trying to make it a top 100 podcast in the world across any category. So we're trending in the right direction, but, uh, I haven't really put that out in public yet. And, uh, I guess now it is. So there we go.

But Sam asked an important question. Every goal or dream should have a time associated with it.

Yeah, you always have to have it.

You know, so what would be— otherwise, you know, it's a, it's an endless wish. So what would be— what do you want?

Um, how much time is left in 2021? Uh, we got 6 weeks.

Yeah.

Uh, let's say in 6 weeks. Let's say— let's, uh, I got a little more than a month.

All right, everybody, go subscribe. If you're listening to this, go subscribe to the How to Take Over the World podcast. It's honestly an amazing podcast. That's why we've run some of episodes on this feed before. Uh, all right, we'll, we'll get you closer. Um, and I think, you know, like if you just said, all right, um, I think one of the reasons people struggle with this question is they feel the pressure like, oh fuck, this is my purpose in life or my mission in life. I better get it right. And actually you wanna do the exact opposite. You wanna treat it like a kid when you say, what do you wanna be when they grow up? And they say, I wanna be a dinosaur. I wanna be a firefighter. I wanna be a pizza man. I wanna be a pizza. And it's like, okay, The best way to get to this statement is actually to put zero pressure on it and say it out loud and then say it out loud again. Say a different thing out loud. Say like, play with the ideas until something sticks with you and hits with you. And then you say, okay, and then how do I juice that? If that's the dream on level 7, what would it be on level 10? What would it be if I turned the knob all the way, broke the knob off the volume thing and it's now at like volume 12 accidentally? What would that be of this, of this podcast? Fast? Like, what would it be right now if you cranked it up?

By the way, I feel like we both put ourselves out there of like putting a number to it. Meanwhile, Sam is like, I'm just gonna be a fitness influencer. But like, where's, where's your number and timeline, Sam? We're not judging. No, I have one, bitch. It's to be— weigh 185 pounds by January 15th.

Come on.

Okay, okay, my bad, my bad. I have it written down on this piece of paper. That's not, that's not an influencer goal.

That's just a fitness Well, no, no, that is because where are you at now?

So you're at 196.

So you started at 210. Sam's basically saying in the next 2 months, I wanna lose 11. I wanna lose 11 pounds, but I'm more, I'm, you know, he's already like, you know, somewhat in shape. So, you know, I, I dunno if it's, I dunno if you have like a body fat thing or whatever. So now what will that attract? It'll attract other people who also want to lose weight or have just done it, right? Those are the 2 people that are gonna reach out to Sam. Hey, me too. Or I just did it. You can do it too. Here's what I, here's what worked for me. And so like, that's the power of doing this and of saying it out loud is convincing yourself.

And Ben, don't come at the master when it comes to goal setting. Okay. I'm the self-manifest. I'm, I'm the man. I'm a manifest cowboy, baby. I get it done. I just wanna know when you're gonna have 100,000 Instagram followers, Sam. That's all I wanna know, bro.

The manifest cowboy is hilarious. First of all, my, my buddy, uh, has is the best nicknames I just discovered. He, cuz he, he showed up, uh, uh, for this thing and I was like, dude, you showed up. Like, I thought you'd be late. And I thought like, you know, you might skip it today because you didn't have to do it. And, uh, his, our other friend was there. He goes, that's why they call him Mr. Show Up. And I thought he was joking. And then literally someone called him Mr. Show Up. I was like, is that your actual nickname? Mr. Show Up? And he is like, yeah. He's like, that was the thing. He's like, he's like, anytime somebody needed like, whatever it was, a ride to the airport, oh, you know, like you need a ride home from the airport. I'll, I'll be there. Just gimme 15 minutes. I'll, I'll show up. And like, you, you'd give him a throwaway invitation to a party, you'd be like, hey, I'm going to this thing. Um, but, uh, you know, you won't know anybody there and it's 2 hours away and like, it might not be fun. He's like, cool, I'll go. And they're like, you showed up to the party? Like, you don't know anyone here. I can't believe you showed up. And that became his reputation.

Mr. Show Up. Who's this guy?

That's hilarious. Um, I think it's gonna be a good app.

I feel like I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to.

I put my all in it like no days off. On the road, let's travel, never looking back.